Bans on plastic bags and straws and expensive campaigns to recycle plastic waste are popular with voters. They give us a sense that the government is acting to protect the environment.

Our guest, John Tierney, has been a columnist for the New York Times and is a contributor to City Journal. He has been studying wastes and recycling for decades.

His conclusion? “Recycling has turned out to be ruinously expensive, while achieving little or no environmental benefit." John also tells us that “if you think the biggest problem facing the  planet is climate change, you shouldn’t be banning plastic grocery bags and causing greenhouse gas emissions to increase.” He argues that bans are distraction from far larger threats to oceans and rivers, such as street litter, dumping trash in the water, and poor waste controls in developing countries.

Tierney’s views about the environment are controversial. He proudly calls himself a contrarian who says that just because an idea appeals to a lot of people doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.

In our episode, Tierney cites a recent study of plastic bag bans in California in the Journal of Environmental Economics and Management. The research concluded that “the elimination of 40 million pounds of plastic carryout bags is offset by a 12 million pound increase in trash bag purchases.” 

Other reports say that the amount of plastic in the ocean is “a lot worse than we thought”, and “our planet is drowning in plastic pollution.”