The huge difference between slogans and solutions is a key theme of this episode. While demands to “de-fund the police” or replace entire police departments with something new might sound good in theory, these ambitious experiments in public safety may backfire.

Our guest is Minneapolis civil rights lawyer and activist Nekima Levy Armstrong. Her recent New York Times op-ed— “Black Voters Want Better Policing, Not Posturing by Progressives”— was written after the defeat of a November ballot initiative that would abolish the Minneapolis Police Department and replace it with a department of public safety. She expressed frustration over the lack of a detailed, well-researched plan.

While white progressives mostly voiced support for the proposal, majority-black neighborhoods rejected it. We find out why.

In the months after the murder of George Floyd, there was a massive outcry over police violence against African-Americans. The protest movement was multi-racial. In many towns and cities, Whites marched alongside Blacks and other citizens of color, demanding change. But what sort of change?

There’s a racial divide in how different communities view the police. But as we hear in this episode, it’s complicated.

Recommendation: Richard enjoyed the new movie, “King Richard” — about the extraordinary story of Richard Williams and his daughters, tennis stars Venus and Serena Williams. Based on the true story the film follows the uplifting journey of a family that created a sports dynasty.